What I like most about the Here and Hereafter or Man in Life and Death book is that it discusses the philosophy called materialism (that every thing consists of matter or is a characteristic of such) and that it proves that animals have thoughts and emotions, and that thoughts and emotions (including those of humans) arise from the actions of organized matter in brains.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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32
A bit of history ... for you history buffs
by RR ini wasn't sure where to post this.
not sure why i'm posting this.
it's only going to add fuel to the fire.
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Disillusioned JW
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Evolution News: Humanlike Footprints in Crete Dated to 6 Million Years Ago!
by Disillusioned JW ini find it astonishing that humanlike feet could have existed that long ago.
i wonder if some non-human upright ape might have had that kind of feet that long ago.
see https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/humanlike-footprints-in-crete-dated-to-6-million-years-muddle-archaeologists-1.10301706 and https://scitechdaily.com/oldest-footprints-of-pre-humans-identified-in-crete-six-million-years-old/ .
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Disillusioned JW
Lava ash can dated radiometrically and thus the impression made in such ash that became hardened can be dated, though the 6 million old footprints (which apparently were not in lava ash) were dated by "geophysical and micropaleontological" methods instead.
I got duped into rejecting evolution and into becoming baptized as a JW partly because I was duped by the WT's arguments against the reliability of carbon dating and other radiometric dating (such as uranium-lead dating and potassium-argon dating). But several years ago I started looking up the WT's quotes of scientists descriptions of radiometric dating and I began reading what other scientific books (as well as encyclopedia articles) said on the subject. I was stunned to see what they say about how reliable it is and how scientists know it is reliable. That caused me to be angry at the WT for twisting what the scientists say about radiometric dating.
Regarding the idea of Big Foot prints, a main problem with them is that they could easily have been made by modern-day humans as hoaxes instead of by a Bigfoot and neither a Bigfoot animal/ape-man nor a fossil of one has ever been found, unlike the case for fossils of ape-men (or at least fossils resembling such).
Simon, are you a young earth creationist?
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Disillusioned JW
neat blue dog, maybe the better analogy with the JW meetings would be the private meetings of the elders and the governing body, rather than the public meetings. Of course only a select few can attend the private meetings. A number of ex-JWs on this site who had been JW elders said their figurative eyes were really opened regarding the JW religion while they were elders.
Folks, in some respects I began noticing problems with the WT teachings when I spoke with some of the local elders and heard their sincere WT based view of certain matters, such as the following:
- submission to all authorities in all cases (other than when they us to do something which the Bible [as interpreted by the WT] forbids) - even if the authority is oppressive;
- slavery being just another form of the employer-employee relationship (and that thus the same biblical NT principles of obedience of a slave to its master apply to modern employees in regards to their employers). Note that least one of my black ancestors were slaves in the USA (when slavery was practiced in the southern USA) and I find slavery to be extremely appalling, including as depicted in the TV miniseries called "Roots" (which I watched when it first aired, and I also read the entire book called Roots [and my father, a white JW, kindly gave to me a Reader's Digest condensed version of the book, without me asking for it]);
- an elder telling me about the letter from the WT to the elders about why the WT was an NGO in affiliation with the UN - stating the unconvincing reason mentioned in the letter;
- application of the NT verse (about anointed Christians will judge angels and thus that disputes between those in the congregations should be handled by the congregational elders) that the WT uses about "why not let yourself be wronged" by a fellow JW, rather the elder taking my side in matter (despite me being convinced I was right in the matter);
- being told that rather than using my unemployment benefits to have enough time to find and obtain a job similar to the one I was laid off from (namely an accounting department job), I should stop collecting unemployment benefits and simply apply for and accept any job (such as a menial low paying one) that I can get (even though a person at the unemployment benefits office said I don't need to do such);
- that if I only spend a couple of hours in field service per month and haven't managed to talk a lot of people into receiving WT literature then something is wrong with me as a JW (rather than that the reason is that people are not interested in WT literature and that they are tired of JWs coming to their door, and that the vast majority of people no longer even bother to answer the door);
- an elder trying to intimidate me (a ministerial servant at the time) into ordering the WT's JW Yearbook (even though the daily text had stopped being included in the Yearbook by that time and even though the Yearbook by that time was no longer used at any Kingdom Hall meetings, even for field service) - a series of books which were always very boring to me, and into ordering me to obtain a video by the WT about the organization (a video which I correctly thought would bore me immensely);
- being told by an elder (since I was a a ministerial servant at the time) to spy on a married woman at night (though from outside in a parked car on the other side of the street from her house) to see if there is WT based grounds of evidence that she is cheating her JW husband (the husband would be along with me in my own car, a car which the woman thus would not recognize) by adultery, with the grounds for evidence being to see if the lights in the house turned off (with the bedroom light turning off last) while a man other than her husband was alone in the house with her;
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32
A bit of history ... for you history buffs
by RR ini wasn't sure where to post this.
not sure why i'm posting this.
it's only going to add fuel to the fire.
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Disillusioned JW
I have a SDA paperback book copyright in 1897 and in reading it I am astonished to see that many of its arguments are exactly the same as used by the WT! The book is by Uriah Smith and is "Berean Library, No. 8" and it is has the title of Here and Hereafter or Man in Life and Death: The Reward of the Righteous and the Destiny of the Wicked. It is published by Review and Herald Publishing Assn. It must be a very old printing since instead of saying "Copyright 1897" it says "Entered, According to Act of Congress, in the year 1897". The book has 357 pages. For example on pages 189 - 193 he says that the English translation of Luke 23:43 should have the comma after the word "to-day" and a number of the reasons he gives for such are exactly the same used by the WT! But, Uriah Smith also gives other arguments, ones not used by the WT, in support of the teaching. To me Smith's book seems much more scholarly and researched than the literature of the WT on the same subject.
The first paragraph of page 127 says the following.
'Because Adam wickedly became a sinner, and brought himself into a state of alienation from God, the doom was pronounced upon him, "thou shalt surely die." Could this mean that he should suffer punishment of eternal death? If so, Adam never could have been released therefrom. But he is to be released from death incurred by his transgression; for "in Christ," the Scriptures assure us, all shall again "be made alive." '
Pages 135 - 136 says regarding Adam the following. "Adam was on probation. Life and death were set before him. ... Immortality was, therefore, not absolute, but contingent. Immortal he might become by obedience to God; disobeying, he was to die. He was not created either mortal or immortal. Which he should be, was to be decided by his own actions."
Page 332 saying regarding promulgating "the doctrine of the destruction of the wicked" that 'some ... go so far as to declare that "it will make more infidels than Paine's 'Age of Reason,' " and that "no conversions to God will ever follow in the track of its blighting and soul-destroying influence." ' In reply, on page 333 Smith says the following.
"So far from being the cause of infidelity, the view we advocate is just what cures infidelity. Whom do we find in the ranks of the friends of this doctrine? Not the criminal and vicious classes, not those who have thrown off all moral and legal restraint, not rejecters of divine revelation; but we find those who were formerly skeptics rescued from their skepticism, and infidels recovered from their infidelity.'
It should also be noted that Rutherford's/Russell's Finished Mystery book has a quote from Smith's book on Daniel and Revelation.
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32
A bit of history ... for you history buffs
by RR ini wasn't sure where to post this.
not sure why i'm posting this.
it's only going to add fuel to the fire.
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Disillusioned JW
Eventually the SDA church admitted that E. G. White used material from others without attribution (but if the copyright had expired prior to such usage, then such usage was legal and back then copyrights had a much shorter lifespan than they do now). I've read that now the SDA church lists the sources that E. G. White used for her books.
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Science News article: ‘Case closed’: 99.9% of scientists agree climate emergency caused by humans
by Disillusioned JW ina news article has the headline of " ‘case closed’: 99.9% of scientists agree climate emergency caused by humans"; see https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/19/case-closed-999-of-scientists-agree-climate-emergency-caused-by-humans .
the article says in part the following.. 'the scientific consensus that humans are altering the climate has passed 99.9%, according to research that strengthens the case for global action at the cop26 summit in glasgow.. the degree of scientific certainty about the impact of greenhouse gases is now similar to the level of agreement on evolution and plate tectonics, the authors say, based on a survey of nearly 90,000 climate-related studies.
this means there is practically no doubt among experts that burning fossil fuels, such as oil, gas, coal, peat and trees, is heating the planet and causing more extreme weather.. a previous survey in 2013 showed 97% of studies published between 1991 and 2012 supported the idea that human activities are altering earth’s climate.. this has been updated and expanded by the study by cornell university that shows the tiny minority of sceptical voices has diminished to almost nothing as evidence mounts of the link between fossil-fuel burning and climate disruption.. the latest survey of peer-reviewed literature published from 2012 to november 2020 was conducted in two stages.
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Disillusioned JW
I sadly agree with what cantleave's says at https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/187023/climate-change-threads-on-jwn-why-im-stopping-posting-on-them?page=2 , which says "Besty you did well, unfortunately people on here tend to go along with conspiracy and crackpot theories and ignore the enormous body of peer reviewed work".
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Science News article: ‘Case closed’: 99.9% of scientists agree climate emergency caused by humans
by Disillusioned JW ina news article has the headline of " ‘case closed’: 99.9% of scientists agree climate emergency caused by humans"; see https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/19/case-closed-999-of-scientists-agree-climate-emergency-caused-by-humans .
the article says in part the following.. 'the scientific consensus that humans are altering the climate has passed 99.9%, according to research that strengthens the case for global action at the cop26 summit in glasgow.. the degree of scientific certainty about the impact of greenhouse gases is now similar to the level of agreement on evolution and plate tectonics, the authors say, based on a survey of nearly 90,000 climate-related studies.
this means there is practically no doubt among experts that burning fossil fuels, such as oil, gas, coal, peat and trees, is heating the planet and causing more extreme weather.. a previous survey in 2013 showed 97% of studies published between 1991 and 2012 supported the idea that human activities are altering earth’s climate.. this has been updated and expanded by the study by cornell university that shows the tiny minority of sceptical voices has diminished to almost nothing as evidence mounts of the link between fossil-fuel burning and climate disruption.. the latest survey of peer-reviewed literature published from 2012 to november 2020 was conducted in two stages.
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Disillusioned JW
Vidqun, I agree with your statement of "Just because the Watchtower misquoted him, doesn't automatically make him reliable." It is for other reasons that I believe David Attenborough is reliable; I also believe that much of what the BBC says (including science shows produced and/or broadcast by them) are reliable. But, I mentioned that the WT mishandled a quote of Attenborough in order to tell people how I first learned of him (at least to the best of my recollection), and thus what led me to discover the sensible and informative things he says. I have discovered a large number of excellent scientific books and articles by researching the WT's quotes of scientists about evolution.
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Follow The Truth
by Slidin Fast inso it seems that donald is set to launch a social media platform called "truth social".
if you start the sign up to go on the wait list you are asked to "follow the truth".
uncomfortable.. maybe it directs you to wt.borg.
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Disillusioned JW
The SPAC (namely the one with ticker of DWAC) that is intended to be used to get Trump's Truth Social company publicly traded is now falling drastically after its initial spike up (which last about 1 to 2 days. See https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/26/stocks-linked-to-donald-trump-dwac-and-phunware-sink-in-trading.html
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Science News article: ‘Case closed’: 99.9% of scientists agree climate emergency caused by humans
by Disillusioned JW ina news article has the headline of " ‘case closed’: 99.9% of scientists agree climate emergency caused by humans"; see https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/19/case-closed-999-of-scientists-agree-climate-emergency-caused-by-humans .
the article says in part the following.. 'the scientific consensus that humans are altering the climate has passed 99.9%, according to research that strengthens the case for global action at the cop26 summit in glasgow.. the degree of scientific certainty about the impact of greenhouse gases is now similar to the level of agreement on evolution and plate tectonics, the authors say, based on a survey of nearly 90,000 climate-related studies.
this means there is practically no doubt among experts that burning fossil fuels, such as oil, gas, coal, peat and trees, is heating the planet and causing more extreme weather.. a previous survey in 2013 showed 97% of studies published between 1991 and 2012 supported the idea that human activities are altering earth’s climate.. this has been updated and expanded by the study by cornell university that shows the tiny minority of sceptical voices has diminished to almost nothing as evidence mounts of the link between fossil-fuel burning and climate disruption.. the latest survey of peer-reviewed literature published from 2012 to november 2020 was conducted in two stages.
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Disillusioned JW
Regarding the post I made about an article in which Sir David Attenborough was interviewed, I say the following.
The WT (in the Life How Did It Get Here book from 1985) in a criticism of evolution, mishandled a quote of David Attenborough from his book called Life On Earth (copyright 1979). I discovered the quote was mishandled a few years ago by checking the quote after borrowing a copy of Life On Earth from a library. The WT was disagreeing with the idea that any fossil of fish had been found that had transitional features between a fish which could not breathe through its mouth and later animals (including amphibians and all reptiles and mammals) which could [see https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/List_of_fallacious_creationist_quotes#Attenborough.2C_David ]. What the WT left out of the quote was mention of one fish (Eusthenopteron) which Attenborough says has the necessary features. Namely he says it has the crucial feature of '"...a passage linking its nostrils with the roof of its mouth. All land vertebrates have this feature and it is this which confirms that this fish is indeed very close to the ancestral line." Later I purchased Attenborough's book because it is a very good book and provides evidence in support of evolution. Later I watched science shows on PBS about nature in which Attenborough was the narrator of the shows. Attenborough is naturalist (in the sense of being a scientist in the field of science known as natural history). In at least one of those shows he mentioned that climate change is happening and that human activity is a major cause of it and that is major danger. What he said, a scientist whom I put much confidence in as being a knowledgeable sincere scientist of nature), is one of the things which convinced me that climate change is happening and is currently mostly being caused by humans. He is one of my scientific sources of reliable information on that subject.
I thus urge people to pay attention to what Attenborough says about climate change.
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Science News article: ‘Case closed’: 99.9% of scientists agree climate emergency caused by humans
by Disillusioned JW ina news article has the headline of " ‘case closed’: 99.9% of scientists agree climate emergency caused by humans"; see https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/19/case-closed-999-of-scientists-agree-climate-emergency-caused-by-humans .
the article says in part the following.. 'the scientific consensus that humans are altering the climate has passed 99.9%, according to research that strengthens the case for global action at the cop26 summit in glasgow.. the degree of scientific certainty about the impact of greenhouse gases is now similar to the level of agreement on evolution and plate tectonics, the authors say, based on a survey of nearly 90,000 climate-related studies.
this means there is practically no doubt among experts that burning fossil fuels, such as oil, gas, coal, peat and trees, is heating the planet and causing more extreme weather.. a previous survey in 2013 showed 97% of studies published between 1991 and 2012 supported the idea that human activities are altering earth’s climate.. this has been updated and expanded by the study by cornell university that shows the tiny minority of sceptical voices has diminished to almost nothing as evidence mounts of the link between fossil-fuel burning and climate disruption.. the latest survey of peer-reviewed literature published from 2012 to november 2020 was conducted in two stages.
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Disillusioned JW
Regarding the claim that was made against Terrance Gerlach’s volcanic CO2 calculation I notice that link posted in support of it doesn't work. I also notice that it includes the number "1991". If that number is a year, then we should be looking for calculations that are much more recent. https://news.agu.org/press-release/human-activities-emit-way-more-carbon-dioxide-than-do-volcanoes/ has an article dated to June 2011 (though it fortunately a link in that article to a supporting document no longer works). It says in part the following.
'On average, human activities put out in just three to five days the equivalent amount of carbon dioxide that volcanoes produce globally each year. So concludes a scientist who reviewed five published studies of present-day global volcanic carbon dioxide emissions and compared those emissions to anthropogenic (human-induced) carbon dioxide output.
“The most frequent question that I have gotten (and still get), in my 30 some years as a volcanic gas geochemist from the general public and from geoscientists working in fields outside of volcanology, is ‘Do volcanoes emit more carbon dioxide than human activities?’” says Terrance Gerlach of the U.S. Geological Survey. “Research findings indicate unequivocally that the answer to this question is ‘No’—anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions dwarf global volcanic carbon dioxide emissions.”
Although geoscientists continue in their efforts to improve estimates and reduce uncertainties about how much carbon dioxide is released from mid-ocean ridges, from volcanic arcs, and from hot spot volcanoes, agreement exists among volcanic gas scientists regarding the significantly smaller emissions of volcanic carbon dioxide compared to anthropogenic carbon dioxide.'
I am confident that scientists have a way of measuring how much CO2 is emitted from volcanoes, such as by taking samples at volcanoes to measure the concentration of what is being emitted and the volume of what is being emitted. Likewise at industrial sites and from tail pipes of vehicles the emissions from those locations can be measured right at the source.